Current equipment system - yay or nay? Come talk with devs

  • administrators

    Hello guys, we would like to know what do you think of current equipment system. We have seen remarks that it is "boring", set bonuses are weak and loot drops are low (this will be mitigated with Beasts).
    The current system of equipment is as follows:
    There are 7 equipment types (Hat, Top, Bottoms, Amulet, Book, Wand, Ring) within 10 equipment tiers. There is one equipment set (e.g. at Tier 1 Worn-out) in each equipment tier.
    There are 5 different levels of quality to each equipment piece - except Amulet and Book (Poor, Good, Excellent, Mint and Legendary) - the higher the level of quality the rarer the equipment piece but the better its attributes. Different types of equipment add to different attributes. There are also set bonuses for wearing 3 and 4 armour pieces.

    What are your thoughts?
    1, Would you like to have more options on each tier? Meaning more equipment pieces with different attributes to choose from ? E,g,

    1. What do you think about equipment pieces boosting more than just 1 attribute ? E.g. Top with not just +Concentration but also +Empower
    2. Do you find the system boring, and if so, why ? What can we improve ?
    3. What do you think about equipment pieces which would unlock you a new bonus attribute once you complete a certain challenge ? (e.g. Defeat 10 Bunyips)

    Thanks for all your feedback. We want the game to be fun for you

  • Yes, after a quick "buy everything i see" run, i now find loot boring.

    Find below my suggestions, please keep in mind that my opinion is very influenced by the fact i have played World of Warcraft for almost 6 years

    1. Finding loot is way more satisfying than buying it: shop should only sell Poor and Good equip like now, but only from tier 1 to tier 5. Monsters should have a very high chance to drop Poor and Good equip (the highest tier drop i have seen since latest patch was tier 5, and i killed serveral tier 7/8/9 monsters). You can lower the value of sold gear if you fear players would farm grey equip for money

    2. High level player shouldn't grind low level monsters to get high quality loot. Killing high level monsters for gold/exp is not fun at all, since you probably don't need gold anymore, and you need exp but you are already a high level so getting one more level is not that appealing anymore.
      Since first levels are easy to get over, low level tier monsters shouldn't drop excellent+ loot. In my opinion:
      Tier I-X: high change to drop Poor/Good (maybe 60% / 30%)
      Tier VI-VII: 10% chance to drop Excellent (statistically killing 40 monsters to find 4 pieces, hoping not to find duplicates)
      Tier VII-VIII: 10% chance to drop Excellent, 5% chance to drop Mint (statistically killing 80 monsters to find 4 pieces, hoping not to find duplicates)
      Tier IX-X: 10% Excellent, 5% chance Mint, 2,5% Epic (statistically killing 160 monsters to find 4 pieces, hoping not to find duplicates)
      Beasts: 100% chance to get something--> 75% Excellent, 17,5% chance Mint, 7,5% Epic

    3. Set bonuses should be given for wearing 2 and 4 armorur pieces. This way a player can choose to rather have the big 4-set bonus or 2 small 2-different-set bonuses

    4. Equipment pieces should give more than 1 attribute:
      Poor-->1 attribute
      Good-->same attribute as Poor but higher
      Excellent-->same attribute/value as Good + second attribute
      Mint-->same first attribute/value as Execellent + same second attribute but higher
      Legendary-->same attributes/values as Mint + 3rd special attribute
      Special attributes should be something cool but not overpowered, and always temporary (activation of attribute not permanent)
      For example (i don't have great fantasy for names):
      *Soul Eater-->has a kill counter. After defeating 10 players (not monsters) you trigger Soul Eater buff for XX minutes: all your damagin spells heals you for 10%. When activating the buff, kill counter gets resetted to zero. During the buff the kill counter is turned off
      *Twisted fate-->during combat, every time you fail/miss/get evaded a spell, you get +1 concentration to a maximum of +10. The effect goes off after the duel, on every duel it starts from 0
      *Forcing dice-->after defeating a monster (not players) you get +1 critical change to a maximum of +10. This buff lasts 24 hours, but it gets resetted every 11th win in a row and every time you lose an encounter
      *Body builder-->walking 1000 meters gives you a 100hp bonus. The effects goes off after first encounter (then you have to walk other 1km if you want it again)
      *Treasure hunter: Triggers only once every 24 hours. Opening the 3rd chest triggers the effect. For the next fight your loot change is increased by 200%
      *Philosopher's Stone: every 24 hours, the first item you sell has a tripled value
      *Alchemist: every 24 hours, the first potion you create gets instantly created (no waiting time)

    As you can see you can implement non-combat utility stats VS combat utility stats. Maybe the combat ones should be only on wands and head, and the others on chest and legs
    Obviously every bonus goes off and resets if you unequip the piece. And starts from beginning if you equip the piece again

    Regarding having equip with 2 attributes, you will have to rebalance players stats and monsters. That's a lot of work i think it is worth it. Maybe an easy thing you can do is to just keep the current stats numbers, but increas players and monsters health. Then you can see how it goes and fix stats numbers on the run

    1. Amulets and books: @Maguss i don't know what they do now, because i have never seen one (can you give us examples?). Here's my 2 cents:
      They should give something special, permanent when equipped, but extremely situational.
      For example:
      *a special spell (that ofcourse has to be put in one of the 10 slots)
      *a class-specific spell (for example an amulet that gives you permission to use Dark Force even if you are not a paladin)
      *a special stat (you can put here all the healing empower/endeavor/crit reduction/debuff cure and remove them from armor equip)

    Hope you liked this! :)

  • I'm influenced more by Roguelike games. Have anyone heard of Angband or Moria? :) (I'm old)

    Totally agree with Ron on "finding is more satisfying than bying".
    Although! store could have RANDOM stuff in it. Depending on items quality and boosts it would be more/less rare in store and prices of course EXPONENTIAL. This way interest in visiting store will be kept up! If you keep same selection and allow low levels buying easily high level stuff interest is gooone really fast. Store should have many common / easily found items and one or two excellent, in rare cases Mint and like lottery win a Legendary with a price to awe.

    What if you could have some wandering merchants of rarities on the Map?! People would actually hunt for those just to have a glimpse of what he might have!

    That being said about buying stuff, now about finding. I think it should be possible for low level guy to find a winning lottery ticket. Meaning to have extremely low chance of finding in some dangerous place some "out of depth" stuff like with 0.00001% it wouldn't be anymore just Good, but something higher. It would keep this feeling "I might get lucky" alive.

    Yay for special attributes like Ron described!

    Poison cloud ring: Some item which could recharge if you walk or run. Like poison cloud ring with charge of say 3-6, it would allow throwing that spell 3-6 times without overheat. Then you should recharge it by going 3-6 km.

    Alchemists stone: Bubbles in minigame are slower /bigger size by 1-20%.

    Books could of course contain some extra spells in them. Equip and you can use it.
    Some Epic books (of each faction) might contain spells only found there and nowhere else!

    What if there would be also staffs, not only wands?! :P

  • administrators

    @ron-benvenuti We just got schoooled. Thanks for all the feedback. Already going through it and making gameplay suggestions for future. We have a lot to learn :)

  • You are welcome, i'd love to see this game having a great longevity! Looking forward for Beasts and other content updates

  • Agree and also I think there will be diferent types of equipment like evasion+ empower, concentration+def, etc cause each player goes with the stats of the class he/she pick but If I want to make my paladin a huge miss for any who tries to hit me, and also hit like a bus I can try to get more items with empower and evasion, obiously the items with the high stats can only be equipped by the class that needs it more but also have diferent gear option could open the door to more customizable characters.

    And plz I know u already talk about but u can also put some quests to get items like amulet and spellbook I have kill lots and lots af monsters and no drop at all. Even u can put some items with Special Abilities like Gardener "This item increases damage agains plant type monsters by 2" or even scroll crafting where u can buy scrolls from high lv mages to get spells u dont have or something like that, also if u have the time can make crafting skills "Weapon, armor, jewerly and scrolls" to not leave potion brewing alone n_n and improve the mats gathering no just potions also can be "The oblivion monster pixie appear near ur location in a thunderstorm and there are some trees thunderstruck" u can go and see the pixies invasion and also gather the rare materials to make items "Thunderstruck wand" this wand improve magic arrow and evasion skills... Im throwing just crazy ideas but that could work to get more ppl in boss monster spwans. Hehehehehehe.

  • I think I would like to see some sort of adaptation of common rpg loot system, where various stat bonuses are split into prefixes and suffixes and the actual combination of them is random. Number of these should obviously be dependent on the rarity of item, and the strength of bonuses on the required level of said item.

    In addition, the value of each stat should have quite a big range to add more randomness. This would make the loot interesting, and also keep it interesting; even if you already had legendary gear, you could still get lucky and get another legendary with just slightly better, or different stats.

    Also, chance of getting legendary drops should be exactly what the rarity hints to; they should be really legendary. They should only be available from the very highest tier of content to keep people playing. If you can get lucky and just buy one off the shop, it doesn't really encourage playing. Populating the shop with anything up to the second highest tier is fine, but the final tier of rarity should be available through actual playing only.

    That's the main hook on many rpg games after all; you just can't resist playing more to try getting better and better loot. Finally, when the gear is near enough to perfection, you start up another character; have you considered allowing multiple characters as many players would certainly want to try all classes? Maybe with shared inventory, so you could play with one and use that lucky legendary drop on your newer character once the new character's level is high enough?

    Also, if some kind of trading options for ingredients or pieces of gear were in existence, the chance of legendary drops could be even lower. This would encourage the social aspect of gaming, as you could then meet fellow players and see if someone has spare pieces of gear that they could trade you in exchange of, for example, some crafted potions or ingredients...

    I'm perhaps digressing a bit from the original topic here, but nevertheless it is at least in some way related to the equipment system.

  • I absolutely agree with all those things already said (so I shouldn't simply repeat them).

    Despite one additional thing: to be really able to check out, combine and test different equipment, it should be possible to place more of them in the inventory.

    It would be a great to be able to have more than only one equipment in a slot. Maybe up to 5 pieces of a certain type (ring, head, upper body, ...).

  • administrators

    @rurik-vlein-nogard-b We want to include crafting system but it will need to wait a bit until we finish some other features :) Thanks for suggestions :)

  • administrators

    @beldin Cool ideas. We definitely won't put legendary or even mint quality items into a regular shop. Also legendary items are pretty rare to drop even now. We have option to create multiple characters on 1 account in our suggestions list but it won't be implemented that soon - there are some features which have priority over it. Thanks for suggestions :)

  • Hello!

    So currently I haven't played yet, since I found out about the the game only recently. Still, I'll be playing on Saturday, for open beta.

    I realize that I don't have a good idea what equipment is like now. However, I still think that it would be really interesting to if you had equipment that would have both positives and negatives. This wouldn't replace normal equipment, but would rather be like "cursed equipment" or something like that. It would have the same general categories, maybe even having sets. In return for having a negative, it's positives are bigger. You could also have things that rely on luck, like something that could boost your defense by -2 to 6 depending on a random number calculated per attack.

    For example, let's say that you have the option of a normal item which would boost empower by 5, a cursed item which would boost empower by 8, but reduce defense by 4, or a different cursed item which could raise empower by 10, or by nothing at all, fifty-fifty chance. Note that I'm making all these numbers up, I have no idea if they're super low or high or whatever.

    Which do you choose? Well, it would depend on what the player thinks is best. Each has its advantage.

    Also I think that of you were going to have all three like in the previous example, they would all need different names. One would be say "Modern", another "Cursed", and another "Ancient". Of course they could be whatever, but you get the idea.

  • @ron-benvenuti WHOUUUUUU REALLY LOVE to see all that implemented in game !

  • Im late, many good suggestions here.

    Would like to add that maybe items attribute's "bonus value" should be "random".

    Blue amulet 1: + 1 concentration
    Blue amulet 2: + 1 evasion
    Blue amulet 3: + 2 concentration

    This adds more game play value since it gives players the need to consistently hunt for better loot. Dont tell players what the maximum value for the bonuses are.

    and as mentioned, anything higher tiered than blue and green should be very rare. e.g. defeating a world boss or dungeon boss which takes 5-10 men effort or, can be crafted but takes a lot of crafting artifacts/materials which are rare as hell.

    In short,
    Dont make it easy.

  • I think that there could be an equipment set for each tier, with each set buffing a different stat. That way you could have a high tier set of gear and have the bonus that you want.
    Equipment buffing more than one stat should be added, as rare finds. And only for the high grades. Like, Excellent has 2 stats it buffs. Mint has 3, and Legendary could buff 4 or more. With the more stats it buffs the rarer it would be. So a legendary tier X hat would be absurdly rare.
    I think the current system isn't boring, just simple.
    And if equipment would get stronger over time, either by completing a challenge or by performing a feat of some kind. Or just by it growing stronger by keeping it equipped, like it absorbs some magic from you... That would be amazing

  • Hello!

    Without reading any other commentary I give my opinion

    • Loot is not boring for me, it is challenging and rewarding once you get it but I am waiting for the crafting system to get in though, I like crafting my gear more than getting it from drop.
      1 - Maybe in higher tiers but not in the lower ones, I think the game must be difficult
      2 - Maybe one fixed attribute and 1 random one?
      3 - I think the system is good as it is and will improve if the crafting system is implemented on the future
      4 - I like the idea


  • I would like to see more Diablo style item system.You know,item tiers with random generated stats.It would make community more likely to trade(when trading option will be included to the game).

  • This post is deleted!

  • I think random stat is not a good idea. It's already very difficult to find a piece of stuff. If you have the wrong random number, it will be very dissapointing.

  • @maguss I truly disagree with the sub-stat system. Like Debuff cure, or Invocation Empower. Those sub-stat seem useless. Because I'm not going to basing my toon on any of the sub-stats. IMO, Debuff cure should be straight defense, and Invocation empower should be straight empower.

    And I believe that it would be cooler if each piece of gear could have an Armor rating.

    But, some of the stuff that I suggest is said by me because I'm kind of trying to turn this game into the game of my dreams.

    I know that our hardware is holding us back. But I wrote this passage years ago :

  • About the questions:

    • list item 1- Would really be good to have more options on each tier, maybe 1 more set per tier or just more options on the same set.

    • list item 2- This is good, but more if we have more options of equipments per tier.

    • list item 3- Its too hard to get equipments.
      If you want the bonus from a lower tier set you need to use weak equipments, so maybe when we have a craft system it would be good to have any way to improve equipment pieces (improving tiers without changing the set or the quality).
      Legendary itens should give anything better than a increased attribute, like more hp regen when walking, itens/gold find, any xp boost.

    • list item 4- That is an interesting feature, but would be better on sets or books/amulets since they don't give only attributes.

    About @Ron Benvenuti reply:

    1. He is right, poor equipment should be almost garbage, only used to complete the set or sold for some extra gold, so it should be really cheap to sell and easy to find. Good equipment should be common equipment for players, not take days to find a good set.

    2. Not so sure about that, legendary equipment should be pretty strong and since it's not available when you get to the tier farming lower level monsters to get legendary aquipment will happen anyway. But I think that find chancefor legendary equipente should not be higher at lower lvls, so a lvl 50 player wouldn't be farming lower tier monsters to get legendary itens.

    3. Nah, set bonus with 3 and 4 pieces are good so you cant use 2 sets at the same time, but you can use a really strong legendary equipment piece without losing all the set bonus.

    4. More attributes with higher quality is a very good idea, but i think that those special attibutes idea fits better the idea of set attributes. Something not all powerfull but that gives you a headstart or a very big utility advantage. Could be good add a Mint/Legendary set attribute in case you have a high quality set.

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