Defense Suggestion

  • Basically, after calculating what defense does I've come to the conclusion that it is rather useless at high levels.

    I admit I don't have a ton of data to confirm my hypothesis, but currently I believe that at least for direct damage spells (i.e. not DoT), raw damage is calculated, then defense is subtracted to get the true damage. I.E. raw damage is 100, defense is 20, true damage is 80.

    This is a big problem for Wardens. Other classes are somewhat impacted by this, but Wardens especially so. Take for example, a Warden with maxed defense and empower, and put them against a Paladin with max empower or a Druid with max empower. Note that the damages are estimations, I'm not sure of the exact formulas yet.

    Warden vs Paladin

    • Warden does about 30 damage with spirit arrows, or 90 damage with Energetic Strike or 180 damage with Solar Spear.
    • Paladin does about 50 damage with spirit arrows, or 130 damage with Energetic Strike or 350 damage with Solar Spear.

    As you can see, each successively more powerful spell has a bigger damage gap. 20 with Spirit Arrows, 40 with Energetic Strike and 170 with Solar Spear.

    Warden vs Druid

    • Warden does about 25 damage with spirit arrows, or 85 damage with Energetic Strike or 175 damage with Solar Spear.
    • Druid does about 20 damage with spirit arrows, or 110 damage with Energetic Strike or 300 damage with Solar Spear.

    Same thing is going on here.

    So my suggestion is to switch defense from a definitive point based defense to a relative defense, maybe based off of a system where like 120 defense would be perfect defense.

    If we go back to the Warden vs Paladin but switch it to this model, then the Paladin receives about the same amount of damage. The warden receives a bit more on Spirit Arrows, a bit less with Energetic Strike and a lot less on Solar Spear. (e.x. Solar Spear would do about 60 damage less, Spirit Arrows would do about 5 damage more)

  • I agree with this a lot, as someone who plays as a Warden. I started off putting as many points as I could into defense, but it didn't do much if anything. Currently going with empower, but defense needs a rework. I think it should be similar to what you suggested as a relative defense. Have the max defense a player can get as "perfect defense" where they take very little damage. It definitely needs to have a larger impact on the damage you receive at the least

  • Especially when Empower boost also the Heal

  • I belive that spell damage is something like (basic damage)+ x * empower.
    I agree that is not balanced when empower boosts both damage and heal.
    I suggest to make something like crit chance = x + (your critical) - (oponent's defence).

  • take healing bonus from empower and give it to defense
    paladin= dps
    warden= tank heal
    in my opinion

  • @michał-gosk interesting suggestion, but then if you don't put points in defence you are weak AND your heals sucks. while right now Paladins are weak with big heals

  • @ron-benvenuti
    hmm on max lvl if you not invest any point you have,,,
    Paladin 25 empover 12 defense
    Warden 5 empover 32 defense
    yeah pala no have alot of defense, but warden no have any healing power or dps if not invest into empower
    so.... warden must invest into empower now if he wona do anything... but pala not must invest into defense... if he can full heal into 1 cycle

  • I've have the same problem. I play warden Full Empower (Lvl 15), even when i use Fumble (150 Dmg), i just can't do enough dmg to the paladin. The paladin just heal it self to full in one turn. When i must use a Heal Serious Wound to heal 50 hp, he do the same with Minor Wound.... Hurgh hurgh.

  • @michał-gosk
    If a paladin have high defense its almost imposible to kill because they heal too much. There are only two counters to that, extract life force (reduces max hp by 40 until you can one shot him) or fairy fire (prevents the opponent from healing for 3 turns).
    Fairy fire as a debuff is vulnerable to cleanse or willpower, so the true counter to that strategy is having extract life force.

    High defense (and worse if they have high evasion) paladins are tough opponents in high level pvp, it is not bad at all getting def as a paladin

  • Well. I can confirm that my defense (and likely empower) calculations were wrong. In a bad way. The increased data that I have found has literally no formula that I can make that will fit it. Note that I've made formula's that needed multi variable calculus to make them before (for chemistry). The closest I can make is a stepwise (rounding down) function something along the lines of -floor( x - 10 ) + ( power * empower ) /10 (the last term is 9 in this case).

    So these are the damages I took with specific defense stats from a sprite if anyone wants to try to fit this to a formula.

    Def: 12 - Dmg: 8
    Def: 14 - Dmg: 6
    Def: 16 - Dmg: 6
    Def: 21 - Dmg: 4
    Def: 23 - Dmg: 3

    There were a couple more, but I lost them (sorry). So yeah, 9 defense reduced the damage by 5. At one point, 2 defense reduced the damage by 0. I have no freaking clue whats going on here.

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