Counterspells: Buff and Debuff interactions

  • This is related to buffs and debuffs and how they interact. There are some spells that when applied, will cause other spells to fail, which I call a "Counterspell".

    This occurs when a buff and debuff affect the same stat type, for example, Pine Needles (+30% Empower) and Infirm (-30% Empower).

    A buff can be applied over top of an active debuff, but a debuff cannot be applied on top of an active buff.

    This is not always intuitive as to what can act as a Counterspell. So far, these are the interactions I have tested:

    • Infirm cannot apply on top of Pine Needles or Giant's Strength
    • Heat Up cannot apply on top of Pine Needles or Giant's Strength
    • Astral Body cannot apply on top of Magic Shield or Sense Danger
    • Numbness CAN apply on top of Bless
    • Medusa Gaze cannot apply over Replicate or Ultimate Evasion

    Interactions that I have noted, but not tested yet:

    • Fairy Fire and Bless (likely follows Numbness and Bless interaction)
    • Astral Body and Dominate (likely follows Astral Body and Magic Shield interaction)
    • Astral Body and Astral Force (likely follows Astral Body and Magic Shield interaction)
    • Infirm and Fire Trap (likely follows Infirm and Pine Needles interaction)
    • Infirm and Astral Force (likely follows Infirm and Pine Needles interaction)
    • Entangle and Unlock
    • Alter Reality and True Sight
    • Exhaustion and Grance

  • Personally I would like to see those effected spell just cancel each other out, so instead of infirm failing to cast if either PN or GS is already in effect have a successful Infirm end the PN or GS leaving the target without either spell, this to me would be a true counterspell.

  • @antony-hollinsworth The strategy right now is to make sure you get Infirm in before they cast PN or GS, and that way you are reducing the effectiveness of the buffs applied after Infirm. I don't think they should cancel out because of the different amounts that each buff and debuff applies. Having Infirm (-30% emp) remove Giant's Strength (+50% emp) would be very strong.

    I think that the way it is implemented now is good, where you can have a defense against debuffs, but there is no way to strip off an opponent's buffs.

  • I can just see now a lot of PVP coming down to who can cast Lifeforce extraction the most times as all other spells slot will be taken with counters and heals, but that's another story lol

  • @antony-hollinsworth That is a strategy that my defensive Warden will be trying out :)

  • mirrored destiny doesn't mirrors cloudkill. Is that ok?

  • @kefeerno That feels like a bug to me and many others I have talked to, but a bit outside this topic as it is not a buff and debuff interaction. I think its already on the dev's radar.

  • @kefeerno mirrored destiny only reflects direct damage. cloud kill is a delayed damage spell

  • @ron-benvenuti
    The only damage types that maguss have right now are direct and infliction damage (both with instant and delayed), even if it's delayed it should be reflected because it isn't an infliction. It's weird how CK can't crit too (closed beta players told me that it was able to crit before).

    The only posible exception to these damage types may be prismatic burst, someone reported that it deals damage ignoring emp so maybe it's a simple 1 per 1 point revenge.

  • @coto013 Prismatic Burst is still direct damage spell, but the damage is calculated as 1:1 for the damage taken in the turn. Have not tested it with Mirrored Destiny, so not sure how they interact.

  • @rollingcode
    If is not affected by emp/def and the damage is calculated 1:1 maybe it's designed as a hp removal something like ELF but instead of targeting the max hp PB target the current hp. If this is the case, it won't be reflected by MD just like ELF.
    Have you tested if PB can crit?

  • @coto013 I have not tested crit with PB (Warden with nothing added to Crit Chance), but my suspicion is that a Crit adds the Crit Emp bonus to your empower, so it is not likely that it would have an effect. Also need to test with Mirrored Destiny, I feel like since its damage and not reduction of max HP, it may behave differently from ELF.

  • @coto013 CK was designed to be a MD counter :)

  • @ron-benvenuti
    A MD counter with heat low enough so it can be casted every turn without buffs or potions. On top on that it is the best skill to combo with buffs/debuffs because of the delay and it have the highest power of all spells without needing 5 slots and having any negative side effect.

    A perfect designed counter to a high cost counterspell that you can play around.

  • @coto013 i know, just saying what the devs had in mind in my opinion. It turned out to be too abused , especially on low levs pvp. As a rogue i steal it so i never had a problem :D

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